Scappoose is closed after dark

Well thats a bummer?  No night riding? Is the boogieman going to get us?

I would be interested in knowing why the area is closed after dark.  Anybody???

This is one of the only winter sanity checks we have. 

I guess I'll have to start adjusting my work schedule to make sure I can get in a ride BEFORE dark. 

 I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, but what singletrack can we legally ride w/in a reasonable distance from downtown during the winter months? Considering simple supply and demand and all, I'm surprised we don't have a bigger problem w/ people poaching trail in FP, the SW Stash or out at Scappoose. 

I'm guessing an event permit could be obtained from LF to have permission to conduct a series of night ride events - this could even be a great fundraiser series of events (with limited number of participants).   That means someone would have to organize a series of NWTA group ride events...   Put on the nw-trail.org event calendar (if not RSVP'd to event then no ride), and.. that's basically it - other than follow whatever LF permit stipulates.

"Do more, Whine less!" - Wade Waddell d. Nov 20, 2006

Who organizes group ride events for NWTA typically?   Get all over it!   The people have spoken!   ;)

And yeah, I realize LF would prefer that NWTA not advertise the location and it's private land and all that... they can stipulate whatever they want...  but the fact remains, it IS the popular riding spot for locals - as hard as NWTA tries to "the first rule of Rocky Point trails, you don't talk about Rocky Point trails..."...  The local riding community (a much larger group than who belong to NWTA) will always consider this a viable riding area which isn't being properly managed for mountain biking use - as much as that hurts because there's a whole bunch of sustainable singletrack rules being broken by attempting to keep it a "social riding" area (when it's clearly more than that). 

Once again, why is scappoose closed after dark?  Did something happen?

Last year we (NWTA) had several Night Rides.  And all of them where occured after dark and we even used our bike lights.  Have lights, will travel...:-)

  I'd be happy to head up something and get a night ride going.  I'm hesitant to contact Stephen Kelis of Longview before talking to some more folks that might of already crossed this bridge.

Oh, and what SW Stash?  Sounds like there are some trails I haven't done. 

"You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing reality obsolete"  -R. Buckminster Fuller

Dennis Veatch 

I would reason that they don't any body on their land at night. That includes poachers, partyers, and other illegal activities that can be done under the cover of darkness.

It is easier to ticket any vehicle and person entering their property when they had a blanket ban at night. 

But for us it sucks....

We could make the argument that having legitimate users who care about the area might be beneficial to them by discouraging more shady users.  A night ride out there would be great.  Thanks for getting this started Dennis.

Brian Baumann 

I'll bring it up to the board tonight and develop a plan to proceed.  Worst thing that can happen is they say no and they notice that we are asking permission.

Dennis Veatch 

Please respect the trails and the fact that we have built them in the homes of the wild creatures.

If you guys do get a good line of communication going with LVT, I urge you to let them know that we cannot control all users, but would be willing to help them if possible.  You have posted some good ideas.  I think they would be able to see that we care about the area if they were to read them.  We also need to remember it is a tree farm.  Their income comes from those trees being removed from the property.  It is not a park.  Our trails do not need to last forever becasue of that simple fact.  Bulldozers and logging equipment make any trails out there vanish.  Then a new crop of trees area planted.  That is how the business works.  I think our use of the area has lowered the amount of vandalism a great deal.  I have been going out there since the '70s and there is hardly any more massive areas of broken glass from people shooting the beer and whiskey bottles they set up behind gates, much less garbage being dumped at gates becasue there are more vehicles parked at these areas because people are in riding.  When you look at what we do when riding it is pretty low impact compard to dumping trash (some quite toxic...I have helped SOLV pull stuff out of their property along the road) and shooting up glass etc.  The pressure treated wooden jumps are gone and the area where the bigger tree was cut down and large amount of dirt was put into creek has been taken care of (2 years ago now) so we have shown them that we do care.  When I am out there I am always looking to do small things on the trails to prevent errosion.  We have, in general as a group of people kept the trails out there quite stable.  We have even stabilized the errosion of some of their old skid roads where we ride.  We are probably the best group they have ever had use the land.  Yeah, the jumps were not the best idea, but the message was clear... DON'T buld jumps.  Lets continue to do even small things that help them.... like removing litter that shows up.  There is room in our own garbage or recycling bins at times.  Just my thoughts.

ron  

FYI:

Dennis, did John elaborate on the "recent events outside of NWTA?" I can't imagine opening up lines of patient, respectful communication being anything but a good thing.

A night patrol sounds like a good idea to me. The last couple of weeks, I've noticed more broken glass at the parking areas and actually come up on some folks who weren't the usual hikers. I know meth heads have rights to hike too, but these folks didn't look like they were up to any good. They looked pretty spooked to see me.

Anyway, my guess is that LF would appreciate the positive presence in the area. Other cycling patrols in diff parts of the country use large, reflective placards that they place in the windows to let the sheriffs dept know who's supposed to be on the property or not when they drive by. 

John told me pretty much the same thing ("don't rock the boat") regarding Rocky Point trails couple years ago... when I'd asked about communications with LVF.

I'm sorry, but... rule #1 with sustainable trail building is open dialog with the land managers and other stakeholders involved.

I can appreciate the delicate nature of the relationship between NWTA and LVF, and that's why we should NOT talk to LVF specifically about any hot button topics but we should most definitely reach out and set up a meet and greet with key individuals (those on NWTA side which have training in proper advocacy involving land managers).  I could help set up a conference call with IMBA resources to help educate interested resources (we needed skilled level headed people here not antagonistic types).  We do have an opportunity here - there's relatively new resource on LVF side and we've had a major change over of the board of directors - so that's reason enough to have a meet and greet to simply get to know each other a little better.  no harm.  No issues to address.  Just get the dialog flowing.  And basically give them an update on key happenings with NWTA and let them know we are interested in being a better resource throughout the region.

My feeling is that the Rocky Point trail network should have an orange "CAUTION" indicator regarding the overall health and sustainability (i.e. access for riding) - and mainly that has to due with improper handling of the relationship with the land manager.   Largely, that's an opinion thing, but I believe there's enough facts to justify giving it a yellow flag... and therefore, much needed care and feeding to nurture it back to a healthy situation.