Scappoose Trails....walkers and dogs

Would I be beating a dead horse yet to say that this is just one more symptom of a greater problem?  It's a lack of real plan for this area as a mountain biking recreation trail system..  And I realize there's danger in even thinking of the area in those terms...  It's such a loose agreement between NWTA and the private land owner, and we've been lucky to be able to develop trails and ride there at all (so be grateful for that, yes)...

However, there's a lack of sustainable trail development happening.  When NO signage is allowed what-so-ever (signs which would be limited to a trailhead sign that explains what the area is for... perhaps a map of the area and some on trail markers - in event someone gets hurt and perhaps needs to be able to inform responders of location...  right now, it'd be like... left, right, turn at big log, etc....)

Sustainable trail development is about more than the way trails are designed, it's the whole aspect of open collaboration with the land manager and other stakeholders.

I agree - there's plenty of places people have to hike and walk their dogs - however, don't believe land can be closed to other users (and we wouldn't want that any way - nobody likes to be shut out).  If shared-use versus no trails at all is choice, then...   could imagine the road could be shared use and the trails be "specific use" for mountain biking only.   but dude, that's a huge leap to get there... Would need better management plan in place between NWTA and LFV.   And I feel there's plenty of slack in the line for the way NWTA volunteers could step up to be better trail ambassadors for that area - forming an active bike patrol with trained volunteers, regular patrols (even night patrols if there's truly - would like to see some actual police reports - of illegal activity)...

Really concerned about situation at RP and some of the very bad things which could easily happen that would loose that area to us - and it'd be really sad because there wouldn't have been much NWTA or LFV would have had to do to mitigate before things came to a head.

"We build.  We care.  We share."   - that's what NWTA's new trail construction signs say (to be placed when trail building), and that's what we need to do more of at RP (well, not building - no new trails allowed - but some maintenance...)

Please respect the trails and the fact that we have built them in the homes of the wild creatures.

I think it would take a HUGE change in perspective from the landowner to have rules other than the ones that are posted.  If you read them, they pretty much cover everything.  In fact, we helped them a great deal when we took all that pressure treated lumber out of their property, because to them (forget the liability) it was no different than someone taking their garbage in behind the gate and dumping it there.  Their signage is pretty clear.  I take my two dogs out there 10-20 times hiking for every time I ride out there.  If my dog takes a dump on a trail I kick it off to the side.  Courtesy for anyone (not just bike riders) who use the trail.  I have seen all types of people out there.  I have even seen homeless folk, drunk on their butts (just once).  Of course they do not go in there to build a shelter as climbing the hill is a bit much when you are living in a physical and mental downward spiral.  

These areas behind the gates are used by many people other than bike riders.  Many!  Right now, I would have to concur that more bike riders than any other group use the RP area, but even so, you still have hunters, lovers, bird and wildlife watchers as well as people just curious about what is behind the gate.  This does not include the Landowners, PGE, BPA, Search and Rescue Canine Training units as well as govenmental agencies.  Almost all the adjacent landowners go into the forest as well, especially if the families have kids... what a backyard huh? 

My point is simple.  If we ride out there, we need to accept others usuing the space.  Yes.  If you see a motorcycle rider or quad rider in there and they are not an employee or member of approved use groups I mentioned... they do not belong in there.  But we are not the police.  I say we take care of what we can.  Keep the trails cleared (even of dog poop) and be helpful by keeping the gate area cleared up of trash.  It does not matter if it was bike riders who left it... I guage how much space I have in my home trash container or recycling bin and haul what I can away.  I could care less if anyone knows (if landowner knew and approved that would be fine, but the main thing for me is to do the right thing, not gripe or blame) if I hauled away trash.

As far as sustainable trails, I do not think that is what needs to take place at this area.  I think the trails need to be trails that will revert back to natural conditions if not used.  My reason is the simple fact that at the discretion of the landowner, the entire area could be clearcut and be..... GONE.  The whole area is a tree farm.  The one aspect I feel is important with regard to the trails out there are that if someone is out riding when it is really wet and they see where a water bar could be cut to prevent errosion.... stop and do it with a stick if nothing else.  Unless there was an agreement reached with landowner regarding the building of trails that would last for a long period... because they are not going to clearcut for a long period... let the trails be what they are.  Pretty loose, pretty organic and pretty simple.  Now you could try to get a grant from say.... Bill Gates for whatever the landowner would sell you the property for... then buy it and build all sort of "last forever" trails.   Not going to happen!  Dog poop will be on the trails as well.  Actually I see more coyote scat than dog, deer or elk scat on the trails than dog.  It is not just for bike riders.  It has been used for all the other purposes I mentioned long before bike riders started riding around in there.  That includes people dumping trash in there!  I say lets try to do as little harm in there as possible and know we cannot control what others do.  If landowners see activity they want us to know about, they have a contact (John) they can let know.  He just lets others know and we get info out to forum, obra, shops etc.  They know we cannot control the general public, but just try to do what we can to maintain. 

just my two cents

ron